AN INTERVIEW WITH David Wilkes - June 2005

The Jazz Nation (TJN): It is a very nice pleasure to have joining The Jazz Nation today, one of the foremost entities of this business. He certainly has made a major contribution to shaping and reshaping the music world as we see it today and the past as well. Currently presiding as V.P. of A&R for Koch Records, please welcome Mr. David Wilkes. Hello David! How are you?

David Wilkes (DW): I'm doing fine. That's a great introduction; I thought you were talking about somebody else (both laughing).

TJN: You have had such a remarkable career in the music world that goes back many years and you have worked with some of the best of the best in the music business.

DW: I really have, yes.

TJN: What gave you the desire to get into the music business?

DW: In the early 60's, I was just involved in the whole political scene of Greenwich Village; the music, civil rights, the Anti-Vietnam War. There was so much happening in the world that was of interest me, and the musical scene of what was happening in the world was basically centered in Greenwich Village, and I lived in that area. So I could jump into it and be a part of it without even knowing that there was a music business to be involved in, it was just a lifestyle choice.

TJN: Back in the 60's, you started out in the music business as a manager, what way to jump in with both feet.

DW: Actually I started by coming in the front door. I met a girl at a party and she was involved with the Bitter End Café which was the center of this whole folk movement in the United States, and I ended up being the door man at the club (both laughing). So that's how I got into this business through the Bitter End door and I spent a whole winter being the doorman, and talking to all of these artists that would come into the club, like John Denver and Jim Croce and people like that and became friendly with them. One thing led to another and I eventually became manager of the club. Then I decided that I wanted to be a personal manager and going out on my own in management.

TJN: We'll talk more about some of these great artists that you have managed, but talk about how the management business was then and how it has changed and evolved to the way it is now.

DW: There were a lot of personal managers in those days and they weren't really big corporations either. They were individuals that might have managed two or three acts that were successful in the area. There were three or four managers that were really strong in the Greenwich Village scene, and one of them was Alert Grossmann who had Ian & Silvia, Peter Paul and Mary, Bob Dylan, Janis Joplin, and Richie Havens, who I later managed by the way. He was sort of the biggest manager, and then there were managers for people like Woody Allen, Bill Cosby, and other big comedians. The Bitter End was a very unique place because it had different kinds of music. We always had three acts; one would be a folk singer to open and then a comedian, and then a bigger act like Peter Paul and Mary. So you had all of these managers that were hanging out there all of the time who knew each other, and it was kind of a village scene. So I just kind of jumped in there and someone told me about an artist who had a great song, and that happen to be Jerry Jeff Walker and I managed him, and that song just happened to be Mr. Bojangles. So I did a record deal with Jerry with Atco Records. I was also Barry Manilow's first manager. Through Jerry's (Jeff Walker) guitar player, Dave Bromberg, I met Emmy Lou Harris and managed her, and Paul Siebel who became one of the great songwriters. And then there was a songwriter in Jerry Jeff Walker's group name Gary White and he wrote a song called Long Long Time, that I got to Linda Ronstadt and she had a gigantic hit with it. So all of a sudden, not only was I managing artists, I was also getting involved in the music publishing side. So I had quite a nice roster without realizing that there was a big world out there and a lot of avenues to explore.

TJN: Yes indeed. Was it difficult to manage those great artists back then oppose to perhaps managing them today?

DW: It was less difficult to manage them back then as opposed to today because there were less demands on artists and the manager, it was a much smaller world. For example, when I managed Jerry Jeff Walker, when we flew down to Memphis to record Mr. Bojangles, Jerry had never even flown on a plane before. So we were all sort of naïve in a way, and we had all these good feelings in our soul about trying to change the world. I don't think anybody was trying to make a million dollars in those days. We were just trying to do what we love to do, say something important, be heard by our contemporaries, the people we respected, being more interested in Bob Dylan hearing their songs than having 800 radio stations play their records.

TJN: That's certainly a different approach opposed to today.

DW: Yeah, it was sort of a hippie approach without even realizing it.

TJN: Talk about the "Coffee House Circuit" because I think it's a fascinating story.

DW: The owner of the club the Bitter End was Fred Weintraub and he had a relationship with a gentleman name C. Shaw Smith who's no longer with us. He was an elderly southern gentleman who was also the Dean of Student Activities at Davidson University. Fred and Shaw and about eight other Student Activities Directors put together a concept of a coffee house circuit that would be sponsored by the NEC. The concept was to bring in affordable talent to college campuses almost on a communal basis where each territory of the United States would be setup with a Student Activities Director / advisor. Then seven or eight colleges would join that area, and there would be across the country about 160 colleges. They would take in performances like Jim Croce, John Denver, Harry Chapin, or Emmy Lou Harris, and each school would put the student on their campus for three days where they would perform at a local café / coffee house, and sometimes in the dormitory. They would get room and travel allotment. They would spend three days at one school, let's say they'd do three days at RPI in upstate New York, one day of travel and the next day they would be at Binghamton University or another New York state college. And they would keep performing for a year or two, working all the time, honing their craft, and making a living at it. Plus they were bringing some great entertainment to the college students who were on isolated campuses. They would tour the Dakotas, even Alaska.

TJN: That's a nice concept.

DW: A great concept, and by the way it would be a great concept to start again. I always thought of doing it again, except it got a little political after a while and after many years of doing this, the universities decided that they wanted to do it themselves.

TJN: Maybe we shouldn't print this man; we're giving away your great concept! (Both laughing)

DW: It's a great idea and if someone reads this article and thinks that they want to get it started again, they should contact us right?

TJN: Really, you could be their consultant.

DW: It was amazing and by the way it was hard work because we'd have a showcase in New York once a year where we would invite all of the colleges and their student activities directors and advisors. We'd 20 to 30 acts. We used to hold it at the Bitter End but it got too big and we had to rent a hotel. There were duos and trios, and solo performers, and comedians. I think David Steinberg, the comedian performed then as well, and Jerry Jeff Walker, Emmy Lou Harris, and a lot of artists that have gone on to have great today.

TJN: Very cool. Let's talk about your hooking up with Vanguard Records because they must have been just elated to have you come on board.

DW: For sure; they were always so surprised as to the amount of activity that I brought to them. Here was a guy who was plugged into the folk scene and they were a record label that specialized in that. So I did some amazing things at Vanguard.

TJN: Yes you did because when you look back at some of the great musicians you worked with like Dave Loggins and Kinky Friedman…..

DW: (Laughing) I have to laugh when I think of Kinky, because that is an amazing story in itself. When I was at Vanguard, I read an article in Rolling Stone magazine that mentioned that a guy name Kinky Friedman was signing with Columbia. I was just intrigued by anybody that name; anybody who was called Kinky Friedman and had a band called The Texas Jewboys had to be a unique guy, and I wanted to find out about him. So my boss and I looked around and I couldn't find him. Then I later saw an article saying that he had just signed with Columbia and then I was a little depressed about it although had not really heard any of his music. About six months later, I was down in Nashville about the time I signed Dave Loggins, and we were having a release party for Dave. I was out for dinner that Saturday night and some guy comes over to me and says "Hi I'm Chuck Glaser and I own a recording studio in town and I also record for a big country group called Tompall and the Glaser Brothers." He also said that he also had an artist that he wanted me to hear. The next day we went by his studio and Chuck had this big credenza right behind his desk, and he opens up the credenza to take out the music and get his hi-fi system cranked up and I see a painting in the credenza of a western saddle. On the western saddle is a Jewish Star branded into the saddle. So I thought to myself; that's a funny thing to have in your credenza, I thought that maybe Glaser was a Jewish name and that's a secret place where he goes to pray. So all of these things are going through my mind and then he puts the song on, and the song was called "Sold American" and it was just an amazing song. So I said "wow chuck that's one of the best songs that I have ever heard," and he said "yeah Kinky writes a lot of songs like that." I said wait a minute; Kinky Friedman? He says yes. I said, I heard he signed with Columbia. He said no that was just a rumor, he never signed. I said ok I'll sign him; right then and there.

TJN: Wow that is a funny story.

DW: Also Glen Campbell had a big hit on that song. Right around the time that Vanguard was getting into the country scene and we also had Joan Baez with the big hit "The Night They Drove old Dixie Down", which was not only a #1 pop hit but a #1 country hit as well. And of course Dave Loggins big hit "Please Come To Boston".

TJN: Going back to Tompall Glaser, wasn't he part of the "Outlaw Scene"?

DW: Yes, during that period of time, basically you had all of your standard country artists and singers like Tammy Wynette, Elvis Presley, Eddie Arnold, that had been grinding out country hits in Nashville for about 15 to 20 years….and all of a sudden you had this new breed of guys who dressed sloppy, sporting beards. And that was basically the outlaw movement that was against the status quo that was going on in Nashville. And Waylon Jennings was one of the greatest exponents of that era, and Willie Nelson I guess would be another one, and leading the pack was Tompall Glaser and the Glaser Brothers.

TJN: Interesting story. Talk to me about your relationship with Larry Coryell.

DW: Larry of course was one the jazz guys out New York's lower east side. There was a club called Slugs in the lower east side where you had all of these great jazz musicians were playing. So I signed Larry to Vanguard and he was one of the early fusion jazz pioneers, along with people like John McLaughlin. Larry (Coryell) was quite a guy. That Eleventh House record that he did, is still selling big numbers.

TJN: It seems that you were involved in every facet of the music business; from publishing, producing, managing……….

DW: Just about yeah, you could say that I have been an agent, definitely been a manager and record producer, and a publishing company, and later on also owned a record company and started from scratch. That was a label that I started with Shanachie / Cachet, Cachet was my label, which was my actual introduction into the smooth jazz area. Noel Pointer was the first artist that I signed to this label.

TJN: After working with so many great artists and other different types of music, and then making the transition of working with Shanachie and getting your first taste of the smooth jazz scene, what was the most striking difference of coming into the smooth jazz scene?

DW: For me it was two things; it was the strength of a melody and the great ability of the players to compose and play these melodies and perform. Unlike straight ahead jazz, which is more improvisational and more intellectual. Here was something that was more emotional and had a great sense of playing, and composition. As you can see from my publishing background that I obviously love melody and lyrics. Smooth jazz is melodic and lyrical…….even the instrumentals are lyrical. It doesn't have lyrics but the music sets a lyrical tone. So you almost can hear a lyric if you put your mind to it, and when you hear Dave Grusin or a David Benoit, or Bob James, you can hear the lyrical qualities of their music. I'm sure that everybody interprets it their own way, but it's certainly great playing and it also has a very bright contemporary sound. There was a slight new agey feel to it which was very big at the time also.

TJN: Indeed it was. So what are you enjoying mostly now; you are at Koch Records now, you are V.P. of A&R, how are you enjoying yourself there?

DW: Well I'm enjoying myself quite well because I'm making records which is what I want to do.

TJN: Talk to me about Koch Records, tell me about Koch.

DW: It's a very unique company, it's the largest independent record company in North America, and it's very eclectic. Everybody knows we are gigantic in Hip Hop, but we're also the #1 independent in Country music, Children's music, also #1 independent in Broadway and Cabaret. We have an amazing distribution company; once again Koch Distribution is the biggest independent distribution company in North America. We are two separate companies, however, we are their biggest label. So it's a great Koch combination and there is an extraordinary amount of very talented, dedicated, and hard working people in all areas at Koch Records and Koch Distribution. This year, although it is real early, we've had five jazz records on the jazz charts already; we've had Steve Oliver, Patches Stewart who is also the trumpet player in Marcus Miller's band and his record was produced by Marcus Miller, now we have Nelson Rangell, Dave Douglas, and Marcus Miller. And I can't imagine Earl Klugh not going on the charts later this year. Bob James was on the charts last year with the Bob James Trio record and I would imagine that his next record he does will do just as well and here's a company that never really had a record on the jazz charts. Also, we just signed Michael Franks and Jon Faddis.

TJN: Isn't that amazing.

DW: That's pretty nice stuff. Let's just say that maybe next year we will be in the top three independents in both smooth jazz and contemporary jazz.

TJN: Yes, and you've got a great roster of jazz artists; I know that Koch is involved in all types of music, but from a jazz standpoint, I know that you just mentioned the recent signing of some of my all time favorite musicians Nelson Rangell, Earl Klugh…..

DW: Right, amazing guys, and you know about the Bob James situation, Marcus Miller and his new record is phenomenal.

TJN: Yeah, well he's in a class all by himself.

DW: Yes, and a nice bright human being also.

TJN: Yes indeed. You also have Steve Oliver there as well. What a phenomenal musician.

DW: Yes, who's on a really nice tour also.

TJN: Yes, you've got a great roster of jazz artists and it seems that you have put your famous David Wilkes touch on Koch Records.

DW: (Both laughing) Well I hope so. This genre of music takes a little while but I'm really enjoying it and it lasts forever, and we are certainly not done.

TJN: You've got a great group of people at Koch Records and Koch Distribution, and I certainly have enjoyed working with them, including yourself.

DW: Thank you.

TJN: David it's been such a pleasure talking with you about all of the great things that you are doing at Koch Records. You guys are certainly on the map, no doubt about that. And it's been wonderful to see some of the great musicians that you have signed on, and to hear this fantastic new music that's out now and what's coming out later in 2005 and beyond.

DW: Thank you very much.

TJN: We've been talking with V.P. of A&R at Koch Records David Wilkes, they have a super roster of musicians, a great history of music, and you certainly want to keep your ears opened to what they are doing at Koch Records. David thanks again and the best of everything in 2005.

DW: Thanks Smitty very much I enjoyed it.

Baldwin “Smitty” Smith

Visit the Koch Records web site.